| JTC1/SC22/WG15 Draft (Unapproved) Minutes -- January 1999 Meeting |
WG15 N783 15 January 1999 New Orleans, Louisiana |
Roger Martin (Chair) called the meeting to order at 09.00am Friday January 15, 1999 at Radisson Hotel, New Orleans, Louisiana.
| Name | Delegation | Post |
| Nick Stoughton | UK | Hod |
| Jim Oblinger | Convener | |
| Dave Blackwood | Canada | HoD |
| Lowell Johnson | US | HoD |
| Andrew Josey | UK/TOG | Member |
| Herman J. Weegenaar | Netherlands | HoD |
| Keld Simonsen | Denmark | Hod |
| Jay Ashford | US | Member/Secretary |
| Roger Martin | US | HoD |
| Bob Barned | Observer (US) |
No real problems.
Dave Blackwood, Keld Simonsen, Nick Stoughton
Agenda reviewed and adopted.
Minutes (as distributed in e1153) were approved without modification.
9804-01 Japan - Provide URLs and other information they would like posted to the WG15 web page (Rolled over from 9510-08 on National Bodies and 9605-01 and 9610-01 and 9705-01 on Japan and Netherlands and 9710-01.) -- CLOSED
9804-02 Project Editor (Stephe Walli) - Call and conduct an editing meeting to create, approve, and forward to the SC22 Secretariat, a disposition of comments for IEEE 1003.2b (JTC1.22.41). (R 96-334) after a review by the U.S., Japan, and Denmark Member Bodies. A proposed record of response has been received via email in WG15 N754. An editing meeting must now be held via conference call or email. (See 9705-10.) (Rolled over from 9605-53, 9610-18, 9705-10, 9705-39 and 9710-03.) -- OPEN, editing meeting not yet held.
9804-03 Project Editor (Keld Simonsen) - Prepare an example of an LIS function of 9945-1 using both IDL and LID. Distribute these examples to WG15, requesting Member Bodies to review and comment on the work. (Rolled over from 9610-52, 9705-23 and 9710-09.) Was OPEN awaiting distribution of response. -- CLOSED (see e1269)
9804-04 U.S. - Send the appropriate document corresponding to 22.21.03.02 Batch Services {2d/15a} to ITTF for publication. SC22 N2232 refers as the ballot summary. (OPEN until receipt by ITTF is confirmed.) (Rolled over from 9705-40 and 9710-12.) -- OPEN (closure expected by end end of January 1999)
9804-05 All Project Editors - Ensure they have or obtain the current
copy of their documents’ source, for archive purposes. (Rolled over from 9705-46 and
9710-13.) -- OPEN
Keld Simonsen – CLOSED
Don Folland – CLOSED
Jim Oblinger - CLOSED
Stephe Walli – OPEN
Casey Schaufler – CLOSED
Norm Aaronson – OPEN
Michael Gonzales – CLOSED
Shane McCarron – CLOSED
Martin Kirk – CLOSED
Jay Ashford – CLOSED
Ted Baker – CLOSED
Barry Hedquist - OPEN
9804-06 All Member Bodies - Seek volunteers for the post of WG15 Convener, to run for three years from September 1998 at the latest. Applicants should have sponsorship from their employers and from their National Bodies. (Rolled over from 9705-55 and 9710-15) -- CLOSED
9804-07 Netherlands – Ask Willem Wakker if he would accept nomination as WG11 Liaison. (rolled over from 9710-26) -- CLOSED
9804-08 Netherlands,– Identify where in 9945-1 and/or 9945-2 changes may needed to accommodate the new Euro currency (rolled over from 9710-28). OPEN (on Netherlands only) – see 3.2 Euro considerations. -- CLOSED
9804-09 Project Editor (Stephe Walli) - Complete disposition of comments on Extensions to base (.1a) PDAM5. (rolled over from 9710-38) -- OPEN
9804-10 U.S. - Forward the appropriate draft of CD 13210 Test Methods, when available, to the SC22 secretariat for DIS ballot. (rolled over from 9710-41) -- OPEN
9804-11 U.S. - Investigate and report on the status of 1003.18 and make a recommendation on a possible division of work. (rolled over from 9710 44) -- CLOSED (withdrawn by PASC, so no division of work is required)
9804-12 Convener – Request that SC22 propose a change to JTC1 rules to allow the use of fast track for amendments to base standards, Technical Reports and ISPs. (R97-381) (rolled over from 9710-47) -- CLOSED (TRs can be fast tracked by not ISPs)
9804-13 Denmark to address Japan’s concerns expressed in N759 on the Cultural Convention Specifications. -- OPEN
9804-14 Canada and Denmark - Investigate whether resources can be found to commence a new work item for the System Administration Overview (1387.1) project. -- CLOSED (resources available but not sufficient for critical mass)
9804-15 US in their plans for a revision of 1003.1 to take into account the subsetting by 1003.13, and to report back to WG15 how they propose to handle that. -- CLOSED
9804-16 Member Bodies to respond to the subsetting proposal in PDISP ballot to 15287-2 (aka 1003.13) and indicate whether such subsetting should be supported in the base standard. -- CLOSED (US supports subsetting, UK supports with conditions, Denmark support with conditions, Canada supports as an isolated case, Netherlands supports)
9804-17 US forward draft 11 of PDAM-8 {a.k.a. 1003.1d} for PDAM ballot at the same time as the IEEE ballot is started (in accordance with the sync plan) -- CLOSED
9804-18 Convener to prepare and forward a report on the Euro issue to SC22. -- CLOSED
9804-19 WG20 liaison (Keld) to post the WG20 liaison report, modified to remove the word POSIX from it, to the WG15 reflector. -- CLOSED (e1267)
9804-20 WG14 Liaison (Keld) to post DTN-1 to the WG15 reflector. -- CLOSED (e1266)
9804-21 Andrew Josey to sort e1247, e1221, e1220, e1219, e1218, e1217, e1216, e1215, e1204, e1194, e1193, e1163, e1158, e1157 into a single record of response and forward them to Keld to mount on the WG15 web site, and to continue doing this on an annual basis. -- OPEN (closure expected in near future)
9804-22 All Member Bodies to identify specific issue that need to be addressed w.r.t. work in progress and co-operative development TOG/PASC/WG15 and report these to Roger Martin by May 31 (1998). -- CLOSED (no contributions received)
9804-23 TOG Liaison, Jim Isaak, Keld Simonsen and Prof Saito (the latter three as the WG15 representatives to the meeting small group) to investigate the possibilities of colocation with TOG in January, and to check the issue of colocation with SC22 in September 1999. -- CLOSED
9804-24 All Member Bodies to review and Comment on N768 (LIS Techniques) by August 1. -- OPEN (comments received from all but US, remains open for US input)
9804-25 US to take appropriate corrective action w.r.t. DAM 4 to 9945-1 (a.k.a. 1003.1g). -- CLOSED
9804-26 Convener and US to suggest that material being developed for P1494 and ISO 14766 is ready to become a draft document; and has been jointly developed. An appropriate copyright statement needs to be developed for such drafts. -- OPEN
9804-27 Convener to call for volunteers to chair the September 1999 meeting, and to act as vice-chair of the January 1999 meeting. -- CLOSED
9804-28 Convener to convey to SC22 the desire of WG15 to continue its work in whatever way possible, and to request SC22 to facilitate ways of involving technical experts in these important projects (R98-401). -- CLOSED
9804-29 Convener to notify SC22 that the US development body has ceased development on work items JTC1.22.42 and JTC1.22.43, and request that these work items be withdrawn. (R98-390) -- CLOSED
9804-30 Convener to communicate R98-392 and R98-395 to TOG for their information -- CLOSED
9804-31 Jim Isaak, Keld Simonsen, and Nobuo Saito to act as representatives of WG15 to the meeting planning coordination group and report progress as appropriate to the WG15 reflector -- CLOSED
9804-32 Keld Simonsen, Nick Stoughton, and Jim Isaak to act as representatives of WG15 to the procedures coordination group and report progress as appropriate to the WG15 reflector -- CLOSED
9804-33 Lowell Johnson and Keld Simonsen to act as representatives of WG15 to the POSIX.1 revision planning coordination group and report progress as appropriate to the WG15 reflector -- CLOSED
9804-34 Convener to recommend to SC22 that Dr Geoff Pickering is appointed as Project Editor for New Project on User OSE Profiles (a.k.a. 1003.23) -- CLOSED (done but overcome by events since NP not approved)
9804-35 Member bodies to continue to actively seek candidates for WG15 convener, and to report these no later than the August SC22 meeting in Copenhagen. -- CLOSED
9804-36 Member bodies to propose alternative methods for continuing and maintaining the work of WG15 if there is no convener, and to report these at the August SC22 meeting in Copenhagen. -- CLOSED
The issue list comes from SD3.
Issue 3 (pax -e) -- remains Open.
Issue 8 (Localedef User specified collation weight names) -- remains OPEN
Issue 9 (LC_CTYPE extensions) -- remains OPEN.
Issue 10 (Range expression dependency) -- remains OPEN.
All of the remaining open issues (3,8,9,10) are referred to the Austin Group for possible resolution.
No actions exepected.
The Convener reports no additional items beyond those assigned to him in the action items.
SD11 has been updated electronicially on the web recently.
No report submitted.
No report submitted.
Keld presented N775 (e1356).
No report.
Keld presented e1357: the group has been disbanded by SC22 and he recommends that we remove this from our agenda.
Keld presented e1328 and 1358, based on a request from the Austin Group.
Andrew Josey presented N782 (still to be e-mailed).
Jim Oblinger presented N779/e1360. For the benefit of clarity, Don Folland is editor TR14252 (P1003.0 - Guide to POSIX OSE).
Andrew Josey discussed the fact that only a small number of interpretation requests have been received since the last WG15 meeting. He reported that none were particularly significant.
Roger Martin provided a little bit of background material concerning the Joint Procedures Committee and the Austin Group (the technical group). The procedures group is charged with developing a set of procedures for developing a standard jointly between The Open Group (TOG), PASC, and ISO & WG15. Andrew Josey described the meetings of the technical group. The group is only just beginning at this point. See http://www.opengroup.org/austin for further information.
These have all been addressed elsewhere.
Keld Simonsen, as Project Editor, reported on progress, specifically with macros for document processing.
Nick Stoughton reported that a Draft Disposition of Comments has been written and a new draft will be forthcoming very soon. A new ISO ballot should happen shortly after the new draft is published.
Nick Stoughtohn reported that this has been completed, but it is unclear whether or not anyone is using it. We need to ask if this is being used to see if it really requires renewal along with the base 1003.2 or if it should be dropped due to non-use.
This project has been withdrawn by PASC and by SC22. While some effort has been expended by both Canada and Denmark to find resources and some has been found, not enough resource exists to successfully complete the project. An action item was created to ask other groups (notably Usenix).
The sense of the group is that this project should be withdrawn at the SC22 level, just as it has been at PASC. A resolution to that effect was drafted. See below.
A draft has been prepared, and is in IEEE ballot, that resolves all known international objections. An official Disposition of Comments is yet to arrive. With that
Ballot resolution is progressing at present
Deleted from the future agendas.
No additional discussion.
It is now waiting for a Disposition of Comments.
It is anticipated that 1003.1f (Ada binding to 1003.21) will use ISO fast track ballot, just as the other Ada binding documents.
IEEE Standard 1003.5c (Ada bindings to Protocol Independent Interfaces) should be ready for ISO fast track ballot. WG15 invited the US to submit the approved standard for fast track approval.
Jim Oblinger reported in N779/e1360 that 13210 is now ready for DIS ballot.
Done and deleted from future agendas.
Passed ballot in IEEE. Waiting on Disposition of Comments. Final PDAM needs to be sent to ISO as soon as possible.
Done. Deleted from future agendas.
Denmark reported that a WG15 Ad Hoc meeting was held this week as part of the PASC meetings. A regular meeting of the PASC working group was requested but the working group chair never called the meeting.
N766 and N767 distributed. Substantial discussion regarding whether or not the draft they have produced should be IEEE copyright or ISO copyright, and how the PAR should be handled (e.g. change to IPAR). ACTION Convener and US to suggest that material being developed for P1494 and ISO 14766 is ready to become a draft document; and has been jointly developed. An appropriate copyright statement needs to be developed for such drafts.
A Disposition of Comments is now required to complete the process.
Comments received from The Netherlands, all of which appear to be editorial in nature. A Disposition of Comments report will be forthcoming. This document should now be submitted for DISP ballot for final resolution.
A Division of Work for this item was disapproved. However, Technical Reports (such as this) can be submitted for fast track. Since this is an approved IEEE standard, WG15 felt the project should be submitted for fast track to make one further attempt at ISO standardization.
A resolution was approved to submit for concurrent CD Registration and Ballot.
TR14252 (POSIX.0) will need revision/reaffirmation/withdrawal in 2000.
There was no new business to consider.
All the following resolutions were approved unanimously except where noted:
99-404 Forwarding of Documents
WG15 approves the forwarding of the following documents to SC22 for ballot:
IEEE P1003.1g Draft 6.6 (9945-1 DAM4 Protocol Independent Interfaces) for JTC1.22.21.01.03.03 Final DAM ballot.
IEEE P1003.1a (9945-1 DAM5 Additional Systems Services) for JTC1.22.39 Final DAM ballot.
IEEE P1003.1d (9945-1 PDAM8 Additional Realtime Extensions) for JTC1.22.21.40 Final PDAM ballot.
IEEE P2003.1b (14515-1 PDAM1 Test Methods for Realtime Extensions) for JTC1.22.37.1.02 Final PDAM ballot.
IEEE Std. 1003.10 (15287-1 Supercomputing AEP) for JTC1.22.15287.01 DISP ballot (if required).
IEEE Std. 1003.13 (15287-2 Realtime System Environment Profile) for JTC1.22.15287.02 DISP ballot.
IEEE P1003.21 LIS (Part 1: Realtime Distributed Systems Communication Application Program Interface (API)[Language-Independent]) for JTC1.22.18011 concurrent CD Registration and CD Ballot.
99-405 Termination of Liaison
Whereas WG22 PCTE has been disbanded by SC22, WG15 thanks Keld Simonsen for acting as liaison from WG22 PCTE to WG15 and for all his valued input.
99-406 Establishment of Rapporteur Groups
Whereas the technical work to revise IS 9945-1 and IS 9945-2 is being done jointly by The Open Group, IEEE PASC, and WG15 in a committee known as "the Austin group", to encourage and facilitate international participation WG15 hereby establishes a Rapporteur group for rEVising (REV) and appoints Nick Stoughton as lead rapporteur and Keld Simonsen as alternate. This rapporteur group shall meet in conjunction with "the Austin group" and shall complete its work upon the successful revision of 9945-1 and 9945-2.
And, whereas a joint procedures committee has been established to coordinate the procedural implications of joint technical development of revisions to IS 9945-1 and IS 9945-2, to encourage and facilitate international participation WG15 hereby establishes a Rapporteur group for Procedures and Coordination (RPC) and appoints David Blackwood as lead rapporteur and Keld Simonsen as alternate. This rapporteur group shall meet in conjunction with the "joint procedures committee" and shall continue to exist only so long as necessary to facilitate procedural issues related to the joint development of common standards.
Both rapporteur groups shall have a maximum of three years in which to complete their work unless further extended by resolution of WG15.
99-407 Voting Representatives
Whereas the rapporteur groups established in 99-406 are in fact joint working groups of The Open Group, IEEE PASC, and WG15, and whereas a voting procedure has been proposed whereby each of those organizations has a single vote in the case of non-consensus, therefore the lead rapporteur of each group has the responsibility of ensuring that WG15 has a voting representative present at every meeting.
99-408 Withdrawal of Project
Whereas the US development body has ceased development of P1387.4 Print Administration, therefore WG15 requests SC22 to withdraw the corresponding work item JTC1.22.21.03.03 (15068-4). (Approved without objection)
99-409 Fasttrack of documents
WG15 invites the US to submit IEEE Std. 1003.5c to SC22 for fast-track approval as an IS.
WG15 invites the US to submit IEEE Std. 1003.23, if and when appropriate, to SC22 for fast-track approval as a TR.
99-410 WG15 Project Development
Whereas WG15 and IEEE PASC have agreed to joint development of the ISO 14766 (P1494) project, therefore WG15 agrees that meetings in support of such joint development are in fact authorized ad-hoc meetings of WG15. Said ad-hoc meetings to be chaired by David Blackwood (Canada).
99-411 Acceptance of Invitation
WG15 thanks Canada for its invitation to meet July, 1999 in Montreal, Canada and gratefully accepts.
99-412 Expression of Appreciation to the Host
WG15 expresses its appreciation to the U.S. Member Body, and particularly to Mr. Roger Martin, for hosting an excellent meeting, and to the IEEE Computer Society for an excellent and most enjoyable dinner.
Appreciations also go to Mr. Roger Martin (U.S.) for acting as Chair and to Mr. Jay Ashford (U.S.) for acting as Secretary of the meeting and to Keld Simonsen (Denmark) for once again supplying the LAN infrastructure.
99-413 Expression of Appreciation
WG15 expresses its appreciation to the U.K., Canadian, and Danish delegations for supplying volunteers to the drafting committee (Nick Stoughton, David Blackwood, and Keld Simonsen), and for their excellent and most exhaustive work in recording the resolutions from this meeting.
99-414 Happy Birthday John Hill
Whereas once again WG15 has completed a successful meeting, despite the absence of its former Convener (Jim Isac), therefore WG15 wishes to express congratulations to all its participants and a very happy birthday to John Hill. (Approved)
9901-01 Project Editor (Stephe Walli) - Call and conduct an editing meeting to create, approve, and forward to the SC22 Secretariat, a disposition of comments for IEEE 1003.2b (JTC1.22.41). (R 96-334) after a review by the U.S., Japan, and Denmark Member Bodies. A proposed record of response has been received via email in WG15 N754. An editing meeting must now be held via conference call or email. (See 9705-10.) (Rolled over from 9605-53, 9610-18, 9705-10, 9705-39, 9710-03, 9804-02) -- OPEN, editing meeting not yet held.
9901-02 U.S. - Send the appropriate document corresponding to 22.21.03.02 Batch Services {2d/15a} to ITTF for publication. SC22 N2232 refers as the ballot summary. (OPEN until receipt by ITTF is confirmed.) (Rolled over from 9705-40, 9710-12, 9804-04) -- OPEN (closure expected by end end of January 1999)
9901-03 All Project Editors - Ensure they have or obtain the current
copy of their documents’ source, for archive purposes. (Rolled over from 9705-46,
9710-13, 9804-05) -- OPEN
Keld Simonsen – CLOSED
Don Folland – CLOSED
Jim Oblinger - CLOSED
Stephe Walli – OPEN
Casey Schaufler – CLOSED
Norm Aaronson – OPEN
Michael Gonzales – CLOSED
Shane McCarron – CLOSED
Martin Kirk – CLOSED
Jay Ashford – CLOSED
Ted Baker – CLOSED
Barry Hedquist - OPEN
9901-04 Project Editor (Stephe Walli) -- Complete disposition of comments on Extensions to base (.1a) PDAM5. (rolled over from 9710-38, 9804-09) -- OPEN
9901-05 U.S. -- Forward the appropriate draft of CD 13210 Test Methods, when available, to the SC22 secretariat for DIS ballot. (rolled over from 9710-41, 9804-10) -- OPEN
9901-06 Denmark to address Japan’s concerns expressed in N759 on the Cultural Convention Specifications. (rolled over from 9804-13) -- OPEN
9901-07 Andrew Josey to sort e1247, e1221, e1220, e1219, e1218, e1217, e1216, e1215, e1204, e1194, e1193, e1163, e1158, e1157 into a single record of response and forward them to Keld to mount on the WG15 web site, and to continue doing this on an annual basis. (rolled over from 9804-21) -- OPEN (closure expected in near future)
9901-08 All Member Bodies to review and Comment on N768 (LIS Techniques) by August 1. (rolled over from 9804-24) -- OPEN (comments received from all but US, remains open for US input)
9901-09 Convener and US to suggest that material being developed for P1494 and ISO 14766 is ready to become a draft document; and has been jointly developed. An appropriate copyright statement needs to be developed for such drafts. (rolled over from 9804-26) -- OPEN
New actions arising from the New Orleans meeting:
9901-10: Denmark and Japan Member Bodies -- Provide feedback on Draft Disposition of Comments for IEEE 1003.2b (JTC1.22.41), prior to the meeting to be called by the Project Editor. WG15 encourages this feedback to be provided by 01 February 1999. History: (R 96-334) after a review by the U.S., Japan, and Denmark Member Bodies. A proposed record of response has been received via email in WG15 N754. An editing meeting must now be held via conference call or email. (See 9705-10.) (Rolled over from 9605-53, 9610-18, 9705-10, 9705-39 and 9710-03.)
9901-11: Convener -- Ensure that Project Editing meeting is held promptly to resolve issues on Draft Disposition of Comments for IEEE 1003.2b (JTC1.22.41). History: (R 96-334) after a review by the U.S., Japan, and Denmark Member Bodies. A proposed record of response has been received via email in WG15 N754. An editing meeting must now be held via conference call or email. (See 9705-10.) (Rolled over from 9605-53, 9610-18, 9705-10, 9705-39 and 9710-03.)
9901-12: All Project Editors -- Submit current copy of their document source to Keld Simonsen for archiving on the restricted WG15 web site. This is an archival copy only. The Project Editors retain responsibility to manage the source of their documents.
9901-13: Project Editor for DAM 4 to 9945-1 -- Prepare and submit Disposition of Comments for DAM 4 to 9945-1 (P1003.1g), and submit the resulting copy of DAM4 for Final DAM ballot. This Disposition of Comments report should include a note stating that while a Final DAM ballot would not be required, the Project Editor recommends that a such a ballot be conducted due to the extensive revisions required to resolve the comments on the previous ballot.
9901-14: Lead Rapporteur of REV -- Raise the remaining open items on the WG15 Issues List (Issues 3, 8, 9, 10) for possible resolution.
9901-15: WG15 Liaison to WG14 -- Prepare a response to the WG14 proposal to jointly work on the registration of C and POSIX locales. See e1328.
9901-16: All Member Bodies -- Nominate candidates for membership in the REV Rapporteur Group
9901-17: All Member Bodies -- Nominate candidates for membership in the RPC Rapporteur Group
9901-18: All Member Bodies -- Review FCD 14651 (SC22 N2844) on sorting, and FCD 14652 (SC22 N2869) on cultural conventions (locales), and submit comments by 1 April 1999 to the WG20 Liaison (Keld).
9901-19: US -- Have the US development body call a meeting of the P1494 working group for the two days immediately preceeding the next WG15 meeting that is co-located with PASC, and reserve a room for that P1494 meeting.
9901-20: US -- Have the US development body provide electronic copies of the current source text of P1003.18 and P1003.23, and make those electronic copies available to the P1494 editor (Keld Simonsen) by 1 March 1999.
9901-21: UK & US -- Identify resources available to progress IEEE Std 1003.23 as an ISO fast track, and recommend the appropriate course of action for progressing this document.
Actions arising from Resolutions:
9901-22: Convener -- Ensure that documents identified in resolution 99-404 are forwarded as instructed.
9901-23: Convener -- Report the formation of new rapporteur groups designated resolution 99-406 to SC22 for their information.
9901-24: Convener -- Report on resolution 99-409 to SC22 and seek its advice on those matters.
No new issues were identified.
Canada volunteered to host a WG15 meeting 23-24 July 1999 in Montreal. This would make put the meeting in the same city and the week as both PASC and TOG. WG15 accepted this gracious offer. This meeting replaces plans for a WG15 meeting in September. Canada agreed to supply the Chair for that meeting.
The Convener will seek invitations for a meeting in the 2nd quarter of 2000.
| N770 | Agenda for New Orleans meeting |
| N771 | UK Action Item Report |
| N772 | Canadian Action Item Report |
| N773 | Danish Action Item Report |
| N774 | Convener Action Item Report |
| N775 | WG20 liaison |
| N776 | WG22 liaison |
| N777 | WG14 liaison |
| N778 | Minutes of ad hoc meeting on ISO 14766 |
| N779 | WG15 Project Editors Report |
| N780 | US Action Item Report |
| N781 | Netherlands Action Item Report |
| N782 | TOG Liaison Report |
| N783 | Minutes - New Orleans 1999 |
| N784 | Agenda for next meeting |
No action taken at this point. There may be discussion at the next meeting of appointing the Convener as a permanent Vice-Chair.
Add reports from Rapporteur groups. Consider approval of proposed joint development procedures.
See resolution 99-412.
The meeting was adjourned at 21.57 Central Daylight Time.