Document ISO/IEC/JTC 1/SC 22/WG 23 N1420

Draft Minutes of Meeting #77
ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 22/WG23

26 May 2024 1300-1600 UTC


Meeting Location :

Zoom

Topic: SC 22/WG 23 Meeting 77

Agenda

77.1 Opening activities

77.1.1 Opening Comments

77.1.2 Participants/Roll Call

Stephen Michell – convenor
Erhard Ploedereder – liaison SIGAda
Clive Pygott - UK
Bill Ash – SC 22 committee manager
YW Lee – Korea
Dr. HS Jung - Korea,
Dr. Chelsang Yoon – Korea
Dr. CH Yoon – Korea
Dr. JW Park – Korea
Ulrich Neumerkel – Austria
Mr. Shiv Maddinmath (BIS)
David Keaton – SC 22 Chair

Regrets
Tullio Vardanega, with position on issues




77.1.3 Procedures for this Meeting

77.1.4 Approval of previous Minutes of meeting 75 and 76

Not reviewed

77.1.6 Approval of Agenda

Approved

77.1.7 Future Meeting Schedule

The main meeting schedule is to progress documents in sub-WG meetings. On an as-needed basis a meeting of the full group is scheduled to progress work to SC 22 for ISO balloting, to propose to SC 22 add or remove documents from the WG 23 schedule and to manage general WG 23 work.

As required to address ballot comments on documents

Planned - 10 Sep 2025, immediately after the SC 22 2026 plenary



77.2 Liaison Activities (for in-person meetings only)

77.2.1 PL22.3/WG5 (Fortran) Steve Lionel

77.2.2 WG4 (COBOL) - none

77.2.3 WG9 (Ada) Erhard Ploedereder

WG 9 eagerly awaiting ballot progression and free availability

77.2.4 PL22.11/WG14 C Clive Pygott

WG 14 eagerly awaiting ballot progression and free availability

77.2.5 PL22.16/WG21 (C++)

Progressing work to develop a C++ document. Meeting bi-monthly on Zoom.


77.2.6 MISRA C Clive Pygott

MISRA is about to publish the C secure coding document.

77.2.7 MISRA (C++) Clive Pygott

MISRA has published the C++ secure coding document.

77.2.8 SPARK Erhard Ploedereder

Same as Ada.

77.2.9 Python

Only 1 meeting from being ready to submit for ballot.

77.2.10 Java

Developed in WG 23 without an ISO/IEC committee support. Oracle has Copyright on Java and has not been completely supportive. Further discussion follows on progressing the Java vulnerabilities document.

77.2.11 Other Liaison Activities or National body reports

77.3. Report from SC 22 (Convenor)

The main topic of this meeting is the free availability of ISO/IEC 24772, all parts. Note from the SC 22 chair:

Today in a meeting of JTC 1/AHG 5, the JTC 1 chair announced that ISO and IEC have largely approved our request to improve the criteria for no-cost availability of deliverables.

This directly affects some SC 22 documents favorably, notably at the moment a suite of documents in development in WG 23, but also others.

I have attached two documents that show the results.  If ISO incorrectly rejects your application for no-cost availability, you can show them these documents to explain why they should have been accepted.

The new criteria are laid out clearly on the last page of the first document, JTC 1/AHG 5 N 49. Most importantly to us, amendments and revisions of documents that were previously approved for free availability will now be approved as long as their scope has not been expanded.

There are a few things to note.

The documents that the SC 22 chair talks about are registered as WG 23 documents N1384 and 1385.

24772-1 has been balloted and approved as an International Standard. However, it is possible that we will want to ballot the other parts, 24772-2 Ada, 24772-3 C, etc. as TR's. This topic is open for discussion.

Proposal (Erhard, Bill) to stagger ballots every 3 to 6 months if we go as DIS ballots. Discussion. A WG position is posted below.

The convenor has put the following documents on the web site formatted as international standards. They have had some wording changes to meet with the ISO editorial demands, such as no “shall” or “may”. The no “shall” is because we have always considered the documents as providing “avoidance mechanisms” that the organization, team or individual apply as demanded by other safety standards, security standards, or organization requirements. The no “may” rule is that ISO regards “may” as explicit permission to make a decision to undertake an action, not the common English meaning. Therefore we must use “can” to express uncontrolled occurrences.

77.4 Document Review

N1396 Fortran,
N1410 SPARK,
N1411 Ada,
N1413 C were discussed, but not reviewed in the meeting. Members are encouraged to read each and comment. The convenor edited all of these documents mostly for wording to align them with the editorial changes applied as part of the FDIS submission of 24772-1. However, the convenor did add some material where it was obvious that items were absent, such as discussion in clause 6.X.1 to justify a recommendation in 6.X.2.

N1413 C had more significant edits since it had not been touched in a while and was also missing clause 6.65 Modifying constants. The convenor drafted a clause for 6.65 and worked with Clive Pygott to develop code examples. This will be reviewed by the C experts before submission for ballot.

A discussion is required as to how we edit/correct/approve these documents and get them into DIS ballot.

Discussion, standards or Technical reports – No statements for Technical reports – Consensus to produce as standards. Stephen and SC 22 Committee Manager will prepare Form 4 documents for each.

Comments:

Tullio Vardanega - My view to the meeting is that the documents as we have finalized should be standards: we have spent considerable effort to making them so, and it was a useful exercise. They are certainly more comprehensive than TRs.
I am confident that the argument to have them freely available based on the 2010 and 2012 precedents should hold.

Python and Java publications. Lack of standards groups for these two documents is a concern. Java/Oracle was a concern. Sc 22 Committee Manager suggests having a Committee Internal Ballot to evaluate National Body support for those documents. A possible approach is to leave Java as a TR, or to register it for a CD ballot and see if National Bodies object.

Additional items could be selected for inclusion, such as Rust. At this point in time, we would need experts in the language(s) we consider, so we will explore further.

77.5 Amendment to ISO/IEC 24772-1

While ISO/IEC 24772-1 was going through the final touch-up and balloting phases, we encountered another vulnerability that we believe needs adding to all documents as 6.66.

The issue is that the 32-bit character set includes characters that can be problematic for many languages. There are three identified issues:

The convenor proposes that WG 23 initiate an amendment to ISO/IEC 24772-1:2020 to capture this vulnerability and others that are arising, to be followed by amendments to the other documents that are published within the next 18 months. At the 2024 SC 22 Plenary, the Convenor requested and received approval from SC 22 for this step. If WG 23 agrees, the SC 22 Committee Manager and WG 23 Convenor will initiate the amendment.



Unanimous agreement.


77.6 Review of Assignment of responsibilities

77.7 Resolutions and Action Items

77-1
ISO/IEC/JTC 1/SC 22/WG 23 agrees to forward the completion of ISO/IEC WD 24772-2 Ada to the SC 22 committee manager for registration as an international strandard and DIS balloting.

77-2
ISO/IEC/JTC 1/SC 22/WG 23 agrees to forward the completion of ISO/IEC WD 24772-3 C to the SC 22 committee manager for registration and DIS balloting as an international standard

77-3
ISO/IEC/JTC 1/SC 22/WG 23 agrees to forward the completion of ISO/IEC WD 24772-4 Python to the SC 22 committee manager for registration and DIS balloting as an international standard

77-4
ISO/IEC/JTC 1/SC 22/WG 23 agrees to forward the completion of ISO/IEC WD 24772-6 SPARK to the SC 22 committee manager for registration and DIS balloting as an international standard

77-5
ISO/IEC/JTC 1/SC 22/WG 23 agrees to forward the completion of ISO/IEC WD 24772-8 Fortran to the SC 22 committee manager for registration and DIS balloting as an international standard

77-6
ISO/IEC/JTC 1/SC 22/WG 23 agrees to initiate a Committee Draft Ballot or a Committee Internal Ballot for ISO/IEC WD 24772-11 Java before we submit -11 as a DIS ballot.

77-7
ISO/IEC/JTC 1/SC 22/WG 23 will agrees to submit the above language documents at 3 month intervals to permit the WG 23 editorial group sufficient time to process documents.

77-8
ISO/IEC/JTC 1/SC 22/WG 23 agrees to confirm the request to SC 22 to create a new project for the amendment of ISO/IEC 24772-1 to add new vulnerabilities, in particular the vulnerability of source code hiding of program elements, and to add similar material to the other vulnerability documents undergoing ballot.

77.8. Appreciations

Wg 23 expresses its appreciation to the SC 22 chair, David Keaton, and JTC 1 chair, Phil Wennblom, for their diligent work in convincing ISO that free availability of standards was essential.

WG 23 expresses its appreciation to the SC 22 Committee Manager, Bill Ash, for his assistance in managing the meetings communication technology.

77.8. Adjournment