Draft 2, 24 December 2006, Jim Moore
These minutes are not official, nor should they be presumed to be correct, until approved at a subsequent meeting of WG9.
Meeting #51 of ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 22/WG 9 was held in conjunction with the SIGAda conference, on the afternoon of Thursday, 16 November 2006 in Albuquerque, NM, USA. The announcement and preliminary agenda for this meeting were circulated as N474. The draft detailed agenda was circulated as N476.
In the absence of the convener, Erhard Ploedereder presided at the meeting. Clyde Roby served as meeting Secretary and recorded the notes on which these minutes are based.
The Meeting Chair, Erhard Ploedereder, called the meeting to order at 2:13 pm (thereby adjourning meeting #50 which had been recessed subject to the call of the convener).
SIGAda Chairman, John McCormick made brief welcoming remarks.
Clyde Roby volunteered to serve as meeting Secretary.
The meeting agenda was approved.
The draft minutes of Meeting #50 are recorded in document N470. They were approved
[Agenda]
| Belgium | Dirk Craeynest (HOD) | . |
| Canada | Brad Moore (HOD), Steve Michell | . |
| France | Pascal Leroy (HOD) | Report |
| Germany | (not represented) | . |
| Italy | Tullio Vardanega (HOD) (unable to attend) | . |
| Japan | Kiyoshi Ishihata (HOD) (unable to attend) | . |
| Switzerland | Urs Mauer (HOD) (unable to attend) | . |
| UK | John Barnes (HOD) | Report |
| USA | Joyce Tokar (HOD), Randy Brukardt, Tucker Taft | . |
| Ada-Europe | Erhard Ploedereder |
| SIGAda | John McCormick, Ron Price, Clyde Roby |
| Convener | Jim Moore (unable to attend) |
| Webmaster | Clyde Roby |
| ARG Rapporteur | Pascal Leroy |
| HRG Rapporteur | Alan Burns (unable to attend) |
| Project Editors |
|
| Guests: | . |
Oral Report:
Canada has contributed a document [N477] regarding the scope of work for updating POSIX Ada bindings.
Received from Jean-Pierre Rosen, 31 October 2006
The AFNOR mirror group of WG9 met on 2006/10/23, in preparation of the upcoming meeting of WG9.
The group reviewed the agenda, and took formal positions on the following topics:
Re: ISO/IEC 14519
The group welcomes the support by Canada of this standard. It
notes however that such support is an entire activity, which does
not fall within the duties of the ARG. The group suggests that
if this activity was to be revived, a special rapporteur group
(PRG?) should be created to support it.
Re: ISO/IEC 13813
The group recommends withdrawing, since this standard was never
implemented by any vendor, and is now incorporated in the upcoming
amendment.
Re: membership of the ARG:
The group supports the addition of Bibb Latting to the members
of the ARG.
Received from John Barnes, 1 November 2006
The BSI Ada panel met recently. The proposal for a new work item to update the POSIX binding was supported. It was suggested that maybe the SQL binding needed updating as well.
[Agenda]
Ada-Europe is a Category C Liaison to WG9 [See N414]
Ada-Europe is preparing a book that consolidates the various documents into a single language specification. It may be published as early as the end of 2006 by Springer-Verlag. It is one volume of 791 pages plus four pages of prefatory matter. It is titled "Ada 2005 Reference Manual."
[Agenda]
SIGAda is a Category C Liaison to WG9 [See N414]
John McCormick represents the Category C liaison of SIGAda.
[Agenda]
Some items come from the Convener's report of the recent plenary meeting of SC22 [N475]
I regret that I cannot be with you at Meeting #51. The duties of my employer demand that I must attend a meeting in South Africa on the same date as the WG9 meeting. I appreciate it that Erhard Ploedereder consented to serve as the Chair for the meeting and that Clyde Roby consented to serve as meeting Secretary. I'm sure that you will have a productive meeting.
At its recent plenary meeting, SC22, with the approval of the US National Body, appointed me to my third three-year term as convener of WG9. That term will expire at the 2009 plenary meeting of SC22, presumably in September 2009. Considering the two years spent as acting convener, I will serve for fourteen years.
Currently, SC 22 is enforcing a JTC 1 rule requiring a 50% "turnout" for any ballot – even procedural ones – to be valid. As you know, for the FPDAM ballot on the amendment, we conducted a "get out the vote" campaign. I wrote to every SC22 head of delegation asking for a vote. Some of you contacted persons in various national bodies. Our efforts were successful and we achieved the 50% requirement. Recently, some of the relatively inactive members of SC22 converted their membership from "participating" to "observing". Currently, there are 19 P-members of SC22, requiring that ten ballots must be cast on any matter, including purely procedural item. At its recent plenary meeting, SC 22 requested that it be permitted to lower the turnout requirement to 40% for non-project-related ballots, for a trial period of two years.
The amendment to the Ada language standard was approved by SC22 without dissent or comment. The editor has prepared the draft for the final ballot, the JTC1 FDAM ballot, and has submitted it to the SC22 Secretariat. Apparently the document is currently undergoing editorial review in ISO Central Secretariat. I hope that the review will be completed in a timely fashion so that the 60-day ballot can complete before the new year. I remain optimistic that the amendment will be published early in 2007.
It was noted that editorial review has been completed and that balloting has begun. The closing date for the ballot is 17 January 2007.
At the request of WG9, SC22 assigned it the responsibility for the maintenance of ISO/IEC 14519. Ted Baker has consented to continue serving as editor. The standard was originally written in the 1990s and does not utilize recent features of the Ada language. It may not support recently added POSIX interfaces. WG9 must determine if it plans to exercise passive stewardship of the current standard or if it plans to revise the standard to improve its currency. If the latter, then it will need to determine how it will organize for this task and who will provide leadership. I will add a standing agenda item for an editor's report (whenever necessary). I have also placed an item under New Business for discussing the issues.
At its recent plenary meeting, SC22 approved the WG9 project to revise the ASIS standard, ISO/IEC 15291.
SC22 has reiterated our request for free availability of the Ravenscar Profile Guide. There may be reason for optimism. The delays in free availability were apparently caused by disagreements between ISO and IEC on the appropriate criteria. The two organizations have now reached agreement on a single set of criteria. The Ravenscar Guide seems to clearly match the criteria, so we can hope for success. Meanwhile, the guide continues to be available from the website of the University of York.
In one of JTC1's longest running soap operas, WG9's request for withdrawal of ISO/IEC 13814 has still not been implemented. However, its status on the ISO web site has been changed to "95.20". The SC22 Secretariat interprets this as meaning that the ISO-level ballot to approve withdrawal is underway.
Incredibly, the withdrawal of 13814 has taken so long that it appears once again among the items for systematic review in 2008.
Also appearing on the list of standards for systematic review in 2008 is ISO/IEC 13813.
It is my understanding that its content is subsumed by the language amendment. Therefore, I suggest recommending its withdrawal. There is plenty of time to reverse our recommendation if that should be necessary.
As you know, SC22 has created a project to provide a cross-language comparison of the vulnerabilities that exist in various programming languages and the manner in which these vulnerabilities may be avoided or mitigated. At its recent plenary meeting, SC22 continued the group for another year. John Benito, who attended the Porto meeting of WG9, will serve as convener and I will serve as the Secretariat.
Erhard Ploedereder serves as the liaison from WG9 to OWGV. Steve Michell has attended meetings representing Canada. Other famous Ada people who have attended OWGV meetings or otherwise contributed include Ben Brosgol and Rod Chapman, and Brian Wichmann.
Erhard Ploedereder, WG9's liaison to OWGV, reported that there are many sensitive spots in the OWGV's work. There is always the problem that the work could degenerated into language-bashing. The group has made some progress, though. The focus is on execution semantics, predictability and vulnerability. Steve Michell has submitted some candidate issues, based on Ada work, that need to be rephrased for language neutrality.
At Meeting #49, WG9 raised an issue regarding the respective scopes of SC7 and SC22: "The convener is requested to convey a concern to SC7, to SC22, and to OWGV that modeling languages and automatic code generation are not treated by the current terms of reference of OWGV and SC22 itself. It is suggested that JTC 1 work on modeling languages and automatic code generation should be transferred to SC22."
At its plenary meeting, SC7 responded that modeling languages support the entire range of system and software engineering activities. The standards that describe modeling languages have a rich set of relationships with the other standards of SC7. Moving the work to SC22 would complicate harmony among the relevant standards rather than simplify it. In addition, SC7 responded constructively by naming a liaison representative from SC22/WG19 (their working group on modeling languages) to OWGV. In turn, OWGV made the tentative decision that it would deal with any language represented by an expert in the OWGV.
SC7's liaison representative to SC22 recommended that SC 22 should take no additional action until the success of this arrangement could be evaluated. SC22 agreed with that recommendation.
In my opinion, the most important work for this meeting is to organize WG9 to conduct the various items of work that are about to begin. These include the POSIX/Ada binding, extended containers, and ASIS.
[Agenda]
This is the "To Do" list for WG9. Some are informal action items assigned to various participants. Some are formal resolutions, which are not yet implemented. Some items are simply in suspense awaiting action by other groups.
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 recommends to SC22 that the following Standard be confirmed when it reaches the end of its five-year review period:
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 recommends to SC22 that the following Standard be withdrawn when it reaches the end of its five-year review period:
For status, see: [Project Editor Maintenance Report, 13813]
[Editor, TR 24718] Monitor implementation by ITTF of free availability for ISO/IEC TR 24718.
For status, see: [Project Editor Maintenance Report, 24718]
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 recommends to SC22 that the following Standard be confirmed when it reaches the end of its five-year review period: ISO/IEC 8652:1995, Information Technology--Programming Languages--Ada, as amended by COR.1:2001. This recommendation is made with the understanding that WG9 is currently preparing an amendment to the standard with completion expected during 2006.
For status: See [Project Editor Maintenance Report, 8652]
[Editor of 8652] (Assigned by SC22 Resolution 5-15) Review the work of the Free University of Amsterdam on "Grammar Engineering" at http://www.cs.vu.nl/grammars/browsable (and as discussed in JTC1/SC22 N 3977), investigate areas for cooperation, and report upon progress made and issues found.
Status: CLOSED. The submitted review is [N465].
[HRG Rapporteur] The HRG is requested to suggest a relationship to OWG:Vulnerability.
Status: Administratively closed.
[Convener] Investigate the possibility that ANSI might be willing to sell the revised ASIS standard ISO/IEC 15291:200x inexpensively, i.e. at a price similar to that of programming language standards -- $18.
Status: Open. It has been surprisingly difficult to obtain the appropriate contact information.
[Convener] Correct New Work Item Proposal for ASIS revisions (item B.2 should be checked as "No") before forwarding it to SC22 for approval.
Status: Closed. The result is [N472].
[Convener] Take whatever steps are necessary to contribute ISO/IEC TR 15942 to the work of SC22/OWGV.
Status: Closed. The TR was provided to OWGV.
... WG9 requests that the ARG consider solutions to the problem described in comment 12 of N459 [containers], as well as other possible extensions to the standard library, and develop a New Work Item Proposal for a Type 2 Technical Report that will provide a "trial use" specification to users and implementers, and that will be suitable for future standardization.
For status: See [Report of Ada Rapporteur Group]
Noting WG9's approval of the amendment to ISO/IEC 8652 and its submission to SC22 for balloting, WG9 authorizes the editor of ISO/IEC 8652 to mark as "Approved" any AIs that provide the basis for the Amendment. WG9 requests the editor to provide a list of these AIs for information.
Status: Closed. Document [N471] records the result.
Noting the current systematic review of ISO/IEC 14519 and the absence of any working group responsible for maintenance of the standard, SC22/WG9 recommends to SC22 that the standard should be confirmed in the current review and states its willingness to accept the editorial responsibility for the standard. It offers the services of Steve Michell (Canada) to serve as project editor, subject to national body confirmation.
For status: See [Project Editor Maintenance Report, 14519]
[Agenda]
Resolution 50-4 scheduled meeting #52 in conjunction with the 2007 Ada-Europe conference, 29 June 2007, in Geneva, Switzerland. The resolution offered below confirms the previous resolution and states the intention of WG9 to colocate meeting #53 with the 2007 SIGAda conference, probably in the Washington, DC area.
[Agenda]
ISO/IEC 8652:1995 Information Technology--Programming Languages--Ada, 22.10.01, Randy Brukardt and Erhard Ploedereder, Project Editors, supported by the Ada Rapporteur Group.
ISO/IEC 8652:1995/COR.1:2001, Technical Corrigendum to Information Technology--Programming Languages--Ada, 22.10.01, Randy Brukardt and Erhard Ploedereder, Project Editors, supported by the Ada Rapporteur Group.
Maintenance action recommendation is due in 2005 for systematic review in 2006.
Project Status
The request for subdivision [N388] of Project 22.10.01, to create AMD.1 was endorsed by WG9 Resolution 40-7 [N389], and approved by SC22 N3310 on 2001-09-12. The project editors are Randy Brukardt and Pascal Leroy, supported by the Ada Rapporteur Group. Preparation of the Working Draft was delegated to the United States for execution by Axe Consulting. The draft prepared by Axe was contributed to WG9 as [N460]. SC22 has approved Resolution 05-29 authorizing its Secretariat to to initiate an FPDAM ballot for ISO/IEC 8652: 1995, Ada, upon receipt of the text from the WG9 (Ada) Convener. The convener submitted the draft as [N467]. The FPDAM ballot completed successfully with no dissent and no comments. The editor prepared a draft for FDAM ballot at the JTC1 level. It has been submitted to the SC22 Secretariat.
WG9 requests the project editor of the 8652 amendment to remain prepared to respond to any request from ITTF for a manuscript of a third edition to 8652.
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 recommends to SC22 that the following Standard be confirmed when it reaches the end of its five-year review period: ISO/IEC 8652:1995, Information Technology--Programming Languages--Ada, as amended by COR.1:2001. This recommendation is made with the understanding that WG9 is currently preparing an amendment to the standard with completion expected during 2006.
Status: The ISO web site indicates that systematic review is underway.
[No written report.]
[No resolution.]
[Agenda]
ISO/IEC 13813:1998, Information Technology--Programming Languages--Generic Packages of Real and Complex Type Declarations and Basic Operations for Ada (including Vector and Matrix Types), 22.10.04, Don Sando and Ken Dritz, Project Editors
The standard addresses the Ada 87 language. WG9 plans to incorporate the substance of this standard in the Amendment to ISO/IEC 8652:1995. WG9 has recommended that the 1998 standard be confirmed during the period while the Amendment is under preparation.
ISO/IEC 13814:1998, Information Technology--Programming Languages--Generic Package of Complex Elementary Functions for Ada, 22.10.05, Jon Squire and Ken Dritz, Project Editors
WG9 has voted to withdraw this standard by year-end 2004. (The action awaits implementation by ITTF.) The standard addressed the Ada 87 language and is effectively replaced by the 1995 language standard.
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 recommends to SC22 that the following Standard be confirmed when it reaches the end of its five-year review period:
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 recommends to SC22 that the following Standard be withdrawn when it reaches the end of its five-year review period:
Status: OPEN. The recommendations above were endorsed by SC22 Resolution 01-07 at their September 2001 plenary meeting. They have been forwarded to JTC1 for approval (during 2003) and implementation by ITTF (during 2004). However, JTC1 voted to confirm ISO/IEC 13814 rather than withdraw it as requested by WG9 and SC22. The SC22 Secretariat conducted a letter ballot authorizing it to request that JTC1 reconsider its action. Accordingly, the request was sent to JTC1 and JTC1 responded by circulating a letter ballot (J1N7405) to withdraw the standard. The ballot ended on 22 June 2004 with the decision to recommend withdrawal (22N7451). At its 2005 plenary meeting, SC22 approved resolution 05-05: "JTC1/SC22, noting JTC1/SC22 Resolution 01-07 and that this withdrawal request has not been completed and that this standard is listed as confirmed on the ISO website, requests that the withdrawal of ISO/IEC 13814: 1998 be implemented." At the 2006 SC22 plenary, it was noted that the status indication on the ISO web site has been changed recently to 95.20, indicating that the ISO-level ballot to withdraw the standard has commenced.
[No written report.]
[Agenda]
ISO/IEC 14519:2001 Ed. 2, Information technology -- POSIX Ada Language Interfaces -- Binding for System Application Program Interface (API), 22.21.04.02, Ted Baker, Project Editor
In 2005, this document was reassigned by SC22, from WG15 to WG9.
Noting the current systematic review of ISO/IEC 14519 and the absence of any working group responsible for maintenance of the standard, SC22/WG9 recommends to SC22 that the standard should be confirmed in the current review and states its willingness to accept the editorial responsibility for the standard. It offers the services of Steve Michell (Canada) to serve as project editor, subject to national body confirmation.
Status: SC22 reassigned the standard to WG9 with Ted Baker as project editor. Processing of the document's confirmation by systematic review has not been completed.
Email note from Ted Baker, 31 October 2006
I regret to say that will not be able to attend. I have exchanged several e-mails with Stephen Michell on the subject of the POSIX Ada binding standard. I provided him with a pdf version of the POSIX Ada binding document, so that he and a group of Canadian colleagues could review it. I understand that they will be estimating the scope of work that would be required to bring the standard up to date with respect to Ada and the base POSIX/Unix C-language API. There have been a few other exchanges, with a representative of Adacore Technologies and a user. The scope of the project can be scaled to fit the available human resources, by limiting the changes to only features that are not already provided by the existing POSIX Ada binding and the Ada language *and* have been requested by members of the Ada community. To this end, it might be reasonable to ask WG9 representatives to provide some e-mail lists of individuals and organizations that we could poll, to determine a list of features for which there is a demand.
Ted Baker has agreed to continue as project editor. It was noted that WG9 participants should react to the last sentence in Ted's report, shown above.
[Agenda]
ISO/IEC 15291:1999, Information Technology--Programming Languages--Ada Semantic Interface Specification (ASIS), 22.15291, Clyde Roby and Greg Gicca, Project Editors, supported by the ASIS Rapporteur Group.
This document was "confirmed" by JTC1 in its 2004 systematic review.
[No written report.]
[Agenda]
ISO/IEC TR 15942:2000, Guidance for the Use of Ada in High Integrity Systems, 22.15942, Brian Wichmann, Project Editor, supported by the Annex H Rapporteur Group.
This is a Type 3 Technical Report; it is publicly available.
JTC1/SC22 recommends to JTC1 that at the end of their 5-year review period, the following standards and technical report be confirmed … ISO/IEC TR 15942: 2000, Guidance for the use of Ada Programming Language in High-Integrity Systems.
Status: The request was forwarded to JTC1 for action during 2005. However, the result of their action is not evident. The convener has requested clarification.
[No written report.]
[Agenda]
ISO/IEC 18009:1999, Conformity Assessment of an Ada Language Processor, 22.18009, Erhard Ploedereder, Project Editor, supported by the Ada Rapporteur Group.
This document was "confirmed" by JTC1 in its 2004 systematic review.
[No written report.]
[Agenda]
ISO/IEC TR 24718:2005, Guide for the use of the Ada Ravenscar Profile in high integrity systems
22.24718, Alan Burns, Project Editor, supported by the Annex H Rapporteur Group
This is a Type 3 Technical Report providing guidance for users.
[Editor, TR 24718] Monitor implementation by ITTF of free availability for ISO/IEC TR 24718.
Status: The 2005 JTC1 letter ballot on free availability for TR 24718 (the Ravenscar Guide) completed with no objections. The request has been forwarded to ITTF for implementation. At its 2005 plenary meeting, SC22 approved resolution 05-01 reiterating the request. At its 2006 plenary meeting, SC22 passed resolution 06-06 again repeating the request and specifically citing criteria.
[No written report.]
[Agenda]
WG9 [N406]: Procedures of the ARG
Resolution 44-4 of [N428]: The convener directs the chair of the ARG to send the list of AIs intended for submission to WG9 to NB and liaison representatives at the time they enter the 'editorial review' state. It would then be the duty of each NB and liaison representative to circulate this information within their own organization for the purpose of developing a position for the forthcoming meeting of WG9.
WG9 N464r, N468: Terms of reference and approach for the revision of ISO/IEC 15291 (approved by Resolution 50-7 [N470])
Resolution 50-6 of [N470]: Until otherwise directed by WG9, the ARG is requested to observe the following priorities in its work: (1, the highest priority) develop a revision of ISO/IEC 15291, ASIS; (2) respond to Defect Reports and/or Ada Issues on ISO/IEC 8652; (3) develop Technical Reports or Standards improving the Ada libraries--notably with respect to containers; and (4) consider proposals for extending the language.
... WG9 requests that the ARG consider solutions to the problem described in comment 12 of N459 [containers], as well as other possible extensions to the standard library, and develop a New Work Item Proposal for a Type 2 Technical Report that will provide a "trial use" specification to users and implementers, and that will be suitable for future standardization.
Status: Open
From Minutes of Meeting #49 [N458]
While it is understood that the document delivered to WG9 is the Amendment document, the ARG, in compliance with resolution 48-3, is prepared to provide an integrated document (known in the vernacular as Reference Manual), and special care has been taken to ensure the consistency of these documents.
From Minutes of Meeting #49 [N458]
There was discussion of the appropriate scope of the revision: update enough to permit access to the new Ada language features or restructure the interfaces to exploit the new language features. It was suggested that it might be appropriate to ask the users of ASIS what they prefer. (Several papers at the SIGAda conference mentioned the use of ASIS.) The work should minimize impact on existing ASIS programs by paying attention to backward compatibility. ...
The amended document was retitled as "Approved Plan for the Revision of the ASIS Standard, ISO/IEC 15291" and renumbered as [N457].
Email from Pascal Leroy, 7 November 2006 [This report was received too late to be included in the detailed agenda package.]
The ARG met in Porto, Portugal, in June. Roughly two-thirds of the meeting were devoted to ASIS, and the remaining to maintenance of Ada 2005.
It was decided that the first activity to be undertaken on the ASIS front was to convert the existing standard to the toolset used for producing the Ada 2005 Amendment, so as to make sure that we can generate consistent documents with the same flexibility we had before. Randy indicated that some toolsmithing will be required to extend the capabilities of the toolset. Randy and Greg were tasked to work on the conversion process with a target date of November, so that we have the existing standard in the new format by the next ARG meeting.
In the course of examining the first SIs, it was noted that the existing ASIS interface is strangely inconsistent and awkward to use in some cases. Despite its name, ASIS mostly provides services for analyzing the *syntax* of a program. In some places it also provides services for analyzing the *static semantics*, but it doesn't do this in a very systematic manner.
So the ARG started brainstorming on the possibility of having a double interface: a syntactic one, essentially identical to ASIS 1999 (with added support for the new Ada 2005 syntax); and a semantic one, making it possible to perform higher-level analysis of programs. Tucker was tasked with studying this possibility. In fact it was noted that users of ASIS have complained in the past of the lack of a high-level interface, and that the SIGAda ASIS group has been discussing the possibility of creating such an interface for a long time.
The Rapporteur doesn't have a list of AIs (or SIs) to submit to WG9 this time around because we are still very early in the new cycle.
The Rapporteur proposes the following list of members for the ARG: Baird, Barnes, Brukardt, Burns, Dewar, Dismukes, Duff, Ishihata, Latting, Leroy, Michell, Ploedereder, Rosen, Schonberg, Taft, Thomas, Tokar, Vardanega.
WG9 has directed the ARG to observe the following priorities in its work:
Currently the first two items are consuming all of the ARG's attention. So there can be no commitment of a date for preparing a TR for extending the Ada containers library.
Canada requested that Brad Moore be named to the ARG in place of their current representative, Stephen Michell.
[ Resolution 51-2 ]
[Agenda]
WG9 N416, Charter of the HRG
From the Minutes of Meeting #49 [N458]
The HRG has not met since the last meeting of WG9. It has reviewed (by email) its future agenda and has decided that it should revisit the Guidelines for use of Ada in High Integrity Applications [ISO/IEC 15942] report with a view to updating it for Ada 2005. A plan to review this report will be drawn up once the Ada 2005 definition has been passed by WG9.
From the Minutes of Meeting #49 [N458]
Both Steve Michell and Erhard Ploedereder stated that they planned to participated in OWG:Vulnerability representing Canada and Germany respectively.
[No written report]
[ Resolution 51-3 ]
[Agenda]
[The convener knows of no unfinished business.]
[Agenda]
Email note from Steve Michell, 6 September 2006:
|
Dear all, In June of this year, at Canada's suggestion, WG9 asked SC22 to give it IS14519 the Ada-POSIX Binding standard. The intention was to look into bringing it up to date to POSIX 2003 or 2008? and Ada2005. SC22 will be considering that request in 2 weeks, but I expect that WG9 will be given the document. That being said, we need to see if we can find a way to update the standard. Ted Baker is the editor of record and has expressed his willingness to keep that position and help in any update. Ted is also the grandfather of Florist, a publically available Ada POSIX binding, which is now being maintained by AdaCore. We have also been in contact AdaCore to ask if they are interested in supporting an update to this document. There response on "interest" was affirmative. Of course we don't know how much effort or support they would be willing to put into the activity. I am looking to assemble a project to maintain IS14519. For now I am looking for people who would be interested in participating in the project with the hope that some of them might even be able to drum up funding support. As the core of the folks that I know that may have an interest in Ada and POSIX, I would ask your help in identifying others who might be interested in the project, at either a technical level or a support level. The maintenance of IS14519 could be be anything from a fairly
small project to a massive one. The binding is a thick binding;
the standard is for Ada87 to POSIX 198?. Both have grown and
changed significantly in that time. How much is done is going
to depend upon how much energy and money we can find to tackle
it, and on the time that we think that we I was thinking of the following timeline:
Please give me your thoughts and please help me find others
who might be seriously interested in POSIX Ada. |
Email note from Brad Moore, 3 November 2006:
|
Canada submits the attached document [forthcoming, Nxxx] to WG9
as a summary of our investigation into the effort required to
revise IS14519 Ada binding to POSIX to reflect Ada 2005 and POSIX
2008 (draft). The document identifies all existing POSIX calls, separates them into subject area, determines if they have been considered by the 14519:2001 and are in or omitted by that binding. It then considers the new functions from 9945:2008 and categorizes them as to the likely handling. Note that this document is in a volatile state and reflects current thinking, which will change over time. From our analysis, there should be less than 150 calls to POSIX to implement the remaining required functionality. If streams and POSIX real time can be determined to be not required, this will reduce the total significantly. Much of the new functionality seems to be file, directory, and process permissions, lock files, user database accounting, codeset conversion, encryption, tracing, system logging, locales, process spawning, threads and shared memory. We did not compare the semantics or parameter signature of existing POSIX calls to the proposed semantics and calling signature. There may be substantial differences at this level. We are taking another pass to consider parameters, error returns and operation signatures and should be able to give more details at the WG9 meeting. Based on our analysis, we believe that an update to 14519 is possible by a WG9 RG working in volunteer mode. We expect such a document to take about 2 years to develop and integrate, plus a year of balloting for a standard. We would propose maintaining the "thick binding" approach. The existing binding was developed this way, and one of Ada's main strengths is its safety. Changing to a thin binding would result in significantly more work for the user of this binding to maintain the inherent safety that 14519 currently provides. Much of the possible additions are stream functions. We believe that Ada stream support makes the POSIX streams irrelevant, but need the help of Ada implementers to confirm this. Some of the possible additions are posix threads operations. We believe that Ada tasking should not be mixed with POSIX threads, except where the underlying OS uses threads to implement tasks. We need further discussion with implementers and as a RG to decide what to do. We believe that the POSIX realtime thread support is superseded by Ada real time tasking. We would like IRTAW 2007 to examine the Ada Real time paradigms and POSIX Realtime Thread paradigms and give us an opinion. We believe that there are now opportunities to deprecate current POSIX sections and operations because Ada has added new functionality. Most likely candidates are in the areas of Directories, Files and Threads. We propose that WG9 create a rapporteur group for this work. We would propose Luke Wong, CMCElectronics or Stephen Michell for this role. Ted Baker, the present editor of 14519:2001 has stated his preference to remain editor of this document. We would support this position. We would expect that a first meeting of this RG should happen Feb 2007. |
It was decided that it would be appropriate to create a distinct Rapporteur Group to deal with the POSIX/Ada binding. Luke Wong (Canada) would be a sensible choice for Rapporteur pending confirmation and support by his company and the Canadian national body. In the intervening time, Steve Michell (Canada) is willing to serve as Rapporteur. The initial approach would be to carry out the suggestions by Ted Baker, reported above.
It's not clear that a New Work Item Proposal is needed immediately. However, the Rapporteur Group should develop a statement of scope and some operating procedures.
[Resolution 51-4] [Resolution 51-6]
Systematic review of ISO/IEC 13813 will be performed during 2008. WG9 should prepare a recommendation for SC22 for the review of 13813. It is my understanding that the desirable content of 13813 has been included in the Ada amendment. Therefore, it seems to me that we should recommend withdrawal of 13813. There is time to change our recommendation if some unforeseen event should derail the amendment process. Accordingly, I have drafted a resolution stating that.
[Agenda]
We appreciate the comfortable accommodations provided by SIGAda. The resolution expresses WG9's gratitude.
We appreciate the services of the meeting Secretary, Clyde Roby. The resolution expresses WG9's gratitude.
We appreciate the continuing services of the WG9 Web Master. The resolution expresses WG9's gratitude.
We appreciate the services of the meeting Chair, Erhard Ploedereder. The resolution expresses WG9's gratitude.
None
[Agenda]
[Numbering of resolutions has been changed from that in the draft detailed agenda.]
The minutes of Meeting #50 as contained in document N470 are approved.
[Discussion] [Agenda]
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 continues its Ada Rapporteur Group until the next plenary meeting and expresses its grateful appreciation to the Rapporteur and the members for their continuing service.
Pascal Leroy (France) is continued as Rapporteur.
The membership of the ARG is designated to be: Steve Baird (SIGAda), John Barnes (UK), Randy Brukardt (US), Alan Burns (UK), Robert Dewar (US), Gary Dismukes (US), Robert Duff (US), Kiyoshi Ishihata (Japan), Bibb Latting (Ada-Europe), Pascal Leroy (France), Brad Moore (Canada), Erhard Ploedereder (Germany), Jean-Pierre Rosen (France), Ed Schonberg (US), Tucker Taft (US), Bill Thomas (SIGAda), Joyce Tokar (US), and Tullio Vardanega (Italy).
The Convener of WG9 is authorized to act for WG9 between meetings in appointing additional members of the ARG. In doing so, he shall consult with the Rapporteur and the National Body or Liaison Organization nominating the member.
Rapporteurs are instructed that they may permit other individuals to observe the deliberations of the Rapporteur Group. The admission of observers and the extent of participation permitted to observers are at the discretion of the Rapporteur with the concurrence of the membership of the Rapporteur Group.
[Discussion] [Agenda]
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 continues its Annex H Rapporteur Group until the next plenary meeting and expresses its grateful appreciation to the Rapporteur and the members for their continuing service.
Alan Burns (UK) is continued as Rapporteur.
The membership of the HRG is designated to be: Peter Amey (UK), John Barnes (UK), Patrick de Bondeli (France), Alan Burns (UK), Rod Chapman (UK), Robert Dewar (US), Bob Duff (US), Michael Holloway (SIGAda), Stephen Michell (Canada), Michael Pickett (UK), Erhard Ploedereder (Germany), Juan Antonio de la Puente (Ada Europe), George Romanski (SIGAda), Jean-Pierre Rosen (France), Mark Saaltink (Canada), Joyce Tokar (US), Tullio Vardanega (Italy), and Brian Wichmann (UK).
The Convener of WG9 is authorized to act for WG9 between meetings in appointing additional members of the HRG. In doing so, he shall consult with the Rapporteur and the National Body or Liaison Organization nominating the member.
Rapporteurs are instructed that they may permit other individuals to observe the deliberations of the Rapporteur Group. The admission of observers and the extent of participation permitted to observers are at the discretion of the Rapporteur with the concurrence of the membership of the Rapporteur Group.
[Discussion] [Agenda]
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 creates a POSIX/Ada Rapporteur Group (PRG) until the next plenary meeting and expresses its grateful appreciation to the Rapporteur and the members for their service.
Stephen Michell (Canada) is designated as Rapporteur.
The membership of the PRG is designated to be: Ted Baker (US), Brad Moore (CA), Ron Price (US), Luke Wong (CA).
The Convener of WG9 is authorized to act for WG9 between meetings in appointing additional members of the PRG. In doing so, he shall consult with the Rapporteur and the National Body or Liaison Organization nominating the member.
Rapporteurs are instructed that they may permit other individuals to observe the deliberations of the Rapporteur Group. The admission of observers and the extent of participation permitted to observers are at the discretion of the Rapporteur with the concurrence of the membership of the Rapporteur Group.
[Discussion] [Agenda]
WG9 schedules future meetings as follows:
[Discussion] [Agenda]
The POSIX Rapporteur Group (PRG) is requested to define its scope and its procedures for approval by WG9's next meeting.
[Discussion] [Agenda]
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 recommends to SC22 that the following Standard be withdrawn when it reaches the end of its five-year review period:
[Discussion] [Agenda]
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 expresses its grateful appreciation to SIGAda for their gracious accommodations in hosting Meeting #51.
[Discussion] [Agenda]
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 expresses its grateful appreciation to Clyde Roby for serving as Secretary of Meeting #51.
[Discussion] [Agenda]
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 expresses its grateful appreciation to Clyde Roby for his continuing service in maintaining the WG9 Web Page.
[Discussion] [Agenda]
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 expresses its grateful appreciation to Erhard Ploedereder for serving as Chair of Meeting #51.
[Discussion] [Agenda]
Noting the retirement of Steve Michell as the Head of the Canadian delegation, WG9 expresses its grateful appreciation to him for his participation and contributions in WG9 and the ARG, and wishes him well in his future endeavours.
[Discussion] [Agenda]
The meeting was recessed subject to the call of the convener. HODs may anticipate email ballots to be conducted during the months between this meeting and the next one.
[Agenda]
N388, Request for Subdivision of Project ISO/IEC 8652:1995
N389, Minutes, Meeting #40 of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, Friday, 18 May 2001, Leuven, Belgium
N400, Minutes, Meeting #41 of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, Friday, 5 October 2001, Bloomington, Minnesota, USA
N404, Working Draft, Revision of ISO/IEC 13813
N405, Recommendation on ISO/IEC 13813 from the UK
N406, Procedures of the Ada Rapporteur Group
N409r, Minutes, Meeting #42, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, Friday, 21 June 2002, Vienna, Austria
N412, Instructions to the Ada Rapporteur Group from SC22/WG9 for Preparation of the Amendment to ISO/IEC 8652, 10 October 2002
N414, Notification of Approval of Category C Liaisons between SC22/WG9 and Ada-Europe and SIGAda
N416, Charter of the Annex H Rapporteur Group (HRG)
N417, Charter of the ASIS Rapporteur Group (ASISRG)
N418, Minutes, Meeting #43, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, Friday, 13 December 2002, Houston, Texas, USA
N423, Convener's Comments on Instructions to the Ada Rapporteur Group from SC22/WG9 for Preparation of the Amendment to ISO/IEC 8652, December 2002
N424, University of York Technical Report YCS-2003-348, Guide for the use of the Ada Ravenscar Profile in high integrity systems
N426, Proposed New Work Item, Guide for the use of the Ada Ravenscar Profile in High-Integrity Systems
N428r, DRAFT Minutes, Meeting #44 of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, 20 June 2003, Toulouse, France
N434, Minutes, Meeting #45 ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, Friday, 12 December 2003, San Diego, California, USA
N435, Draft for PDTR Approval Ballot, ISO/IEC TR 24718, Guide for the use of the Ada Ravenscar Profile in high integrity systems, 14 Feb 2004
N437, ARG Rapporteur's Proposal for Defining Scope of Amendment to ISO/IEC 8652:1995, 9 April 2004
N439r, Convener's Report, 2004, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 (Ada)
N440, Minutes, Meeting #46 ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, Friday, 18 June 2004, Palma de Mallorca, Spain
N441, SC22 N3758, WG9 Request for National Body Contributions on Implementation of Coded Character Sets in Ada (text document),
N442, Draft submitted for DTR Approval Ballot, ISO/IEC TR 24718, Guide for the use of the Ravenscar Profile in high integrity systems, 20 July 2004 (PDF file, 626 KBytes)
N443, Announcement and Draft Agenda, Meeting #47 of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, Thursday, 18 November 2004 Atlanta, Georgia, USA
N444, Meeting Report: ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22, 6-10 September 2004, Jeju, Republic of Korea
N445, DRAFT Explanatory Report re SC22 Resolution 04-15
N446, Draft Detailed Agenda, Meeting #47 of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, Thursday, 18 November 2004, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
N447, Explanatory Report re SC22 Resolution 04-15
N448, Minutes, Meeting #47 of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, Friday, 18 November 2004, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
N449, Announcement and Draft Agenda, Meeting #48 of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, Friday, 24 June 2005, York, UK
N450, Detailed Agenda, Meeting #48 of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, Friday, 24 June 2005, York, UK
N451, Minutes, Meeting #48, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, Friday, 24 June 2005, York, UK
N452r, Convener's Report, 2005, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 (Ada)
N453, Announcement and Draft Agenda, Meeting #49 of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, 17 November 2005, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
N454, Meeting Report: ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22 (Programming Languages, Operating Systems and Environments), 29 September to 2 October 2005, Mont Tremblant, Quebec, Canada
N455, Draft Detailed Agenda, Meeting #49 of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, 17 November 2005, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
N456, Convener Proposal for the Revision of the ASIS Standard, ISO/IEC 15291
N457, Approved Plan for the Revision of the ASIS Standard, ISO/IEC 15291
N458, Minutes, Meeting #49, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, 17 November 2005, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
N459, Disposition of Informal Comments Received on Editor's Draft of Amendment, 23 March 2006
N460, Editor's Draft, Amendment 1 to ISO/IEC 8652, March 2006
N461, Announcement and Draft Agenda, Meeting #50 of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, 9 June 2006, Porto, Portugal
N462, JTC1 Directives, 5th edition, Version 2, April 2006 (JTC001-N-8122)
N463, ISO/IEC Directives, Part 2, Rules for the structure and drafting of International Standards
N464r, 2nd Preliminary draft New Work Item Proposal for the Revision of ISO/IEC 15291, ASIS
N465, Response of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 to SC22 Resolution 5-15
N466, Draft Detailed Agenda, Meeting #50 of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, 9 June 2006, Porto, Portugal
N467, Submission of ISO/IEC 8652:1995/FPDAM 1 to SC22 for FPDAM ballot
N468, Example approach for structuring the revised ASIS Standard
N469, John Benito, "OWG: Vulnerability -- A new type of Working Group used for a new SC22 Working Group," for SC22/WG9 Meeting, Porto, Portugal, June 2006
N470, Draft Minutes, Meeting #50, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9, 9 June 2006, Porto, Portugal
N471, List of AIs approved per resolution 50-8
N472, Proposal to Revise ISO/IEC 15291, Information technology - Programming languages - Ada Semantic Interface Specification (ASIS)
N473, Annual Convener's Report, 2006, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG9 (Ada)
N474, Announcement and Draft Agenda, Meeting #51 of ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 22/WG 9, 16 November 2006, Albuquerque, NM, USA
N475, Meeting Report: Plenary Meeting of ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 22, 18-22 September 2006, London, UK
N476, Draft Detailed Agenda, Meeting #51 of ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 22/WG 9, 16 November 2006, Albuquerque, NM, USA
N477, Canadian Contribution, Initial Work Scope Summary for updating Ada POSIX Bindings IS 14519:2001 to POSIX Draft IS 9945:2008 and Ada 2005
ISO Web Site: http://www.iso.org/
ITTF Web site of publicly available standards: http://isotc.iso.ch/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2489/Ittf_Home/PubliclyAvailableStandards.htm.
JTC1 Web Site: http://www.jtc1.org/
SC22 Web Site: http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/
WG9 Web Site: http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG9/
SC22 High Integrity Ad Hoc Group Web Site: http://www.aitcnet.org/isai/
ACAA Web Site: http://www.ada-auth.org/
ACAA Web Site for ARG Minutes: http://www.ada-auth.org/arg-minutes.html
ACAA Web Site for AIs: http://www.ada-auth.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/AIs/
ACAA Web Site for Amendment: http://www.ada-auth.org/amendment.html
Ada-Europe Web Site: http://www.ada-europe.org/
Ada-Europe 2006 Conference Web Site: http://www.hurray.isep.ipp.pt/ae2006/
SIGAda Web Site: http://www.acm.org/sigada/
SIGAda 2006 Conference Web Site: http://www.sigada.org/conf/sigada2006/
[Agenda]
End of Document