ISO/ IEC JTC1/SC22/WG14 N1004

Document Number: WG14/N1004	NCITS/J11/03-001
Document Title:  Oxford Meeting Minutes
Document Date:   08-April-2003

Monday March 31st 

1. Opening activities 
   1.1 Opening Comments

FG: welcomed everybody and described the local arrangements.
   1.2 Introduction of Participants/Roll Call 

Derek Jones         Knowledge Software UK
Walter Banks        Byte Craft Limited Canada
Tom Kremer          Cray, Inc          USA
Chris Hills         Hitex UK           UK       HOD
John Parks          Intel              USA
Raymond Mak         IBM                Canada   HOD
Barry Hedquist      Perennial, Inc     USA
Fred Tydeman        Tydeman Consulting USA
P. J. Plauger       Dinkumware, Ltd    USA
Tana L. Plauger     Dinkumware, Ltd    USA
John Hauser         Self               USA
Randy Meyers        Silverhill Systems USA
Douglas Walls       Sun Microsystems   USA      HOD
John Benito         Self               USA
Willem Wakker       ACE Consulting     NL       HOD
Randy Marques       Atos Origin        NL
Jan Kristoffersen   Ramtex Engineering DK       HOD
Nobu Mori           SAP                Germany  HOD
Tom Plum            Plum Hall          USA
Francis Glassborrow Self               UK
Rich Peterson       HP                 USA
Herb Sutter         Microsoft          USA
Greg Colvin         Oracle             USA
Clive Feather       Self               USA
Martyn Lovell       Microsoft          USA


RM_C -> Raymond Mak
RM_U -> Randy Meyers
RM_N -> Randy Marques

   1.3 Selection of Meeting Chair 

JB to act as meeting chairman.
DJ to act as meeting secretary.

   1.4 Procedures for this Meeting 

As per normal.

   1.5 Approval of Previous Minutes (WG14/N987) 

ACTION: JB to revise minutes of previous meeting (correct typos) and
publish as N1003.

   1.6 Review of Action Items and Resolutions 

RM_U Lvalue of expression.    OPEN
     Revised words for DR266  OPEN
FG   ???                      CLOSED
LJ   DR268                    OPEN
RM_U DR267                    OPEN
JB   Email group for draft TR CLOSED

   1.7 Approval of Agenda (WG14/N999) 

Switched items 8/9 in the draft agenda.

   1.8 Distribution of New Documents

No new documents.
   1.9 Information on Next Meeting 

TP: Next meeting to be held at Royal Kona Resort during Oct 21-24.
Hotel not providing meeting rates until the Monday evening.

ACTION: TP to send out Kona meeting information.

   1.10 Identification of National Bodies 

Countries represented: Netherlands, UK, Canada, US, Denmark, Germany

   1.11 Identification of J11 voting members 

12 voting J11 members out of 15 possible members.

2. TR Status Report (PDTR 18037.1, WG14/N996) (Benito, Wakker)

WW reported that a disposition of comments document had been sent out.
Aiming for document to be sent out for SC22 ballot after this meeting
and for ballot to be complete before that start of the next WG14 meeting.
SC22 has agreed that the final TR can be made publicly available via
the web.

3. Liaison Activities 
   3.1 J11 (Walls, Meyers) 

RM_U: reappointed chair.
FT: appointed vice-chair.

   3.2 WG14 (Benito) 

JB: nothing to report.

   3.3 J16/WG21 (Sutter) 

TP:  At least nine liaisons between WG14 and WG21 present at meeting.
Five year revision of C++ is underway.

ACTION: TP to forward N number of C++ Philosophy of revision document
to WG14 reflector.

A revised C++ Standard document, that includes the contents of the
TC, has been published as ISO/IEC 14882:2003.  This is now the
official document.

   3.4 WG15 (posix) (Simonsen) 

No liaison report.

   3.5 WG20 (I18N) (Simonsen) 

WG20 have a new convenor and the group had a meeting in Korea.

   3.6 WG11 (Wakker) 

Completed ballot on LIA part 3: complex arithmetic.
Revision of Language Independent Datatypes document slowing moving forward.

   3.7 Other Liaison Activities 

It was believed that an ISO workshop on Linux standardization (DJ
thought this might involve deciding which system files went in which
directories) would soon be taking place in the UK.

IEEE 754 continues to debate the status of signalling NANs.

4. Rationale Editors report (Benito)

JB: A new revision of the Rationale will soon be released.

5. Defect report status (Benito)

Discussed the possibility of issuing a TC containing replies to latest
DRs.  This lead onto a discussion about whether work will start on
revising the current standard next year (five years after initial
publication) or it will be left to stand for a while longer.
No decisions made.

6. Optional Signaling NaN support (WG14/N1000)(Tydeman)

FT: Presented N1000 to the committee.  The committee agreed to this
document replacing the signalling NAN document currently linked to
from the WG14 web site.

7. Additional Character Data Types in the Programming Language C (WG14/N998) (Mori)

NM: Presented N998 to the committee.

After some discussion it was agreed that a new header, uchar.h,
contain the macro, type, and function definitions.

It was agreed that the functionality described in N998 was of
practical benefit to developers and that a TR should be published.

ACTION: NM to edit N998 into a form suitable for submission as a TR.

ACTION: JB, TP, RM_U, BP, WW to review the document produced by NM.

ACTION: JB to forward the reviewed document to SC22 for registration
as a TR and concurrent ballot.

9. New defects (WG14/N995, WG14/N1002) (Benito, Walls)

DW presented N995.  The committee agreed on it being submitted as a DR

ACTION: RM_U to write the response to DR 284.

The committee agreed that the question raised in N1002 be submitted
as a DR (DR 285).

FT described a number of cases where wording associated with floating
point requirements might need clarification.  The committee
discussed whether any of these cases should be submitted as DR's.

ACTION: FT create wording for a DR (number 286 assigned) dealing with
correct rounding mode issues in annex F.

ACTION: FT create wording for a DR (number 287 assigned) dealing with
one or more 'typo's in G.5.1p8.

ACTION: FT create wording for a DR (number to be assigned) containing
floating-point related typos.
DONE (merged into 'typo' DR being produced by JB).

Broke up into two groups.  One group discussed open DR's and the
other discussed the Embedded TR.

Tuesday April 1st 

8. Interpretation of the Sequence Point Specification. (WG14/N1001) (Mak)

RM_C presented N1001.  There was extensive discussion (summarized
by one person as "we have said all this before").

ACTION: CF, RM_C, RM_U, RP to form a subgroup to discuss sequence point
issues and report back before the end of the meeting.

DJ reported back to the full committee the extensive, mostly inconclusive,
discussion on DR 219 that had occurred in the Defect Report breakout

10. Proposal for TR on C Library Security (WG14/N997) (Sutter, Lovell)

ML presented N997.  There was discussion about whether the
functionality described should be formally included, in some fashion,
in standard C.

ACTION: ML to post a request for feedback on the contents
of the paper to the WG14 reflector.

11. Break out into groups

Defect Reports 

ACTION.  RM_U to write a paper discussing the issues raised during the
discussion of DR 219.

DR 230.  Change status from Open to Review.

DR 251.  Change status from Open to Review.

DR 260. Lots of discussion with no consensus being reached.  The case
of pointer usage in segmented architectures was suggested as an
additional motivating example.

ACTION.  RM_U, JB to find/create document discussing DR 260.

DR 266.  Discussion with no consensus.  To discuss later.

DR 261.  Clive had potential sticking points and will converse with
interested parties.

DR 267.  Change status from Review to Closed.

DR 268.  Agreed to accept wording, with revisions between [[ ]]
below, from N985 and change status from Open to Review.

"- The subsequent effect of a jump statement [[inside the loop]] or of
reaching the end of the loop body shall be the same as if the jump
[[into the loop]] had not happened and ..."

DR 272. CF, RP to discuss revised wording and report back before the
end of the meeting.

DR 274.  Accept wording from N985 and change status from Open to Review.

DR 280.  Delete the Proposed Committee Response.  Add the sentence
"See footnote 267." between the first and second sentences of bullet
point 3 of the Suggested Committee Response and make it the Proposed
Committee Response.  Change status from Review to Closed.

Embedded TR discussion 

TO BE ADDED by Embedded subgroup Chair???

Wednesday April 2nd 

11d. Continued break out

ACTION: TP to summarise issues associated with DR 236 and provide
draft wording for committee response.

DR 281.  Change status from Review to Closed.

DR 282.  Change status from Review to Closed.

ACTION: RM_U to produce wording for DR 284.

DR 285.  Existing proposed response in N1002 accepted.  Change status
from Open to Review.

11f. Continue break out

ACTION: RM_C to create sequence point document and send to review
committee in time to comment for submission to the next WG14 meeting.

ACTION: CF, FT, RM_U, TK to review sequence point paper prior to
next WG14 meeting.

ACTION: FT to create a 'flags and sequence points' document for
submission as a DR.

ACTION: JB to create 'variable -> object typo' document for
submission as a DR.

ACTION: CF to draft words describing the four uses of the term
constant to be considered in the response to DR 261.
DONE merged in here or a separate document?  I don't have them.

ACTION: RP to draft revised wording for response to DR 272 in time
for the full committee tomorrow.
DONE merged in here or a separate document?  I don't have them.

More discussion of DR 236.

Thursday April 3rd 

WW reported deliberations of Embedded TR group to the full committee.
Getting a document published promptly was considered to be very
important.  Unable to reach consensus on annex D, so it was dropped.

Various small updates were made to the document.

ACTION: WW to send document to Embedded subgroup and interested
parties on April 14 for a one week review period.

ACTION: JB will forward, on April 21, reviewed Embedded document to
SC22 for PDTR ballot.

NM described some issues relating to the additional character types
TR proposal (emails SC22WG14.9748 & SC22WG14.9750).

15. Defect report review

Presentation of deliberations of Defect subgroup to full committee.

DR 266.  More discussion.  Agreed to leave open for now.

DR 236.  TP presented his thoughts on the direction of a discussion
document.  The committee were not able to reach consensus.

DR 272.  TP presented wording which was accepted.

DR 282.  The wording of the Proposed Technical Corrigenda was changed
to (with the status remaining Review):

"In most situations the flexible array member is ignored.  In
particular, the size of the structure is as if the flexible array
member was omitted (and may contain additional padding at the start
to ensure the flexible array member is correctly aligned).  However...

... except that it may have more trailing padding than this omission
would imply."

Wording changes were also needed for the examples.

ACTION: CF to provide modified wording for examples involving
flexible array members.

TP presented the DR 236 discussion that had occurred during a lunch
time break out group meeting.

14. Separate WG14 administration and J11/U.S. TAG meetings

There were no WG14 administration issues that needed to be considered.

16. Administration 
   16.1 Future Meetings 
      16.1.1 Future Meeting Schedule 

2004 Mar 29-Apr 2 in Sydney Australia.  Hosted by Whitesmiths/Standards Australia
2004 Oct Redmond, WA USA.  Hosted by Microsoft/ANSI
2005 No official host
2005 Sep/Oct hosted by Canadian National Body

      16.1.2 Future Agenda Items 


      16.1.3 Future Mailings 

Post Oxford meeting mailing items to be with JB by May 2.
Pre Kona mailing items to be with JB by Sep 22.

   16.2 Resolutions 


      16.2.1 Review of Decisions Reached 

Sending Embedded TR out for PDTR ballot.

Sending Additional Character Set TR out for registration and
concurrent ballot.

      16.2.2 Formal Vote on Resolutions 


      16.2.3 Review of Action Items 

ACTION items were reviewed

      16.2.4 Thanks to Host 

Thanks to Francis for all the work he put into hosting the meeting.

   16.3 Other Business 


17. Adjournment